DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Here's a little tidbit of information that I was unaware of until reading some of Jesse Curry's Warren Commission testimony today....
It seems as though the Dallas Police Department wanted to have one of their cars (which would have contained Homicide Captain Will Fritz and some heavily-armed DPD detectives) positioned between President Kennedy's car and the Secret Service follow-up car during the motorcade through Dallas on 11/22/63.
But the Secret Service said no to that plan---and I can certainly see why. The "Queen Mary" SS follow-up car, of course, is equipped with running boards for the agents to stand on, whereas I don't think any car provided by the DPD would be so equipped. So it would have been a very bad decision to have placed the SS car further behind JFK's car in the event of trouble. That would have meant that agents Clint Hill (et al) would have had Fritz' car between them and the President---and that's just dumb, IMO. And I guess the Secret Service thought so too.
Plus, I think that putting a car between the President's vehicle and the SS car would have been a major violation of Secret Service protocol and standard procedures for Presidential protection. I have never seen any photos or films which had ANY vehicle placed between the President's limousine and the SS follow-up car. Sometimes, in fact, the SS car gets so close to JFK's car that the bumpers are almost touching (such as in the photos below). So it's no wonder the SS nixed the DPD's idea.
But I just wonder if some conspiracy theorists think that this testimony given by Chief Curry reveals part of the alleged "security stripping" that some CTers think took place in Dallas on November 22nd? ....
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[WC Testimony On:]
DALLAS POLICE CHIEF JESSE E. CURRY - We had planned to have Captain Fritz and some of his homicide detectives immediately following the President's car which we have in the past, we have always done this.
J. LEE RANKIN - Now, would that be between the President's car and the Secret Service?
Mr. CURRY - And the Secret Service. We have in past done this. We have been immediately behind the President's car.
[DVP INTERJECTION: I wonder when this strange occurrence would have occurred? I have my doubts that it ever did occur with respect to a Presidential motorcade. It sounds like a ridiculous motorcade arrangement to me, making the job of the Secret Service even more difficult.]
Mr. RANKIN - Did you propose that to someone?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir.
Mr. RANKIN - Who did you propose it to?
Mr. CURRY - To Mr. Lawson and Mr. Sellers.
Mr. RANKIN - What did they say about that?
Mr. CURRY - They didn't want it.
Mr. RANKIN - Did they tell you why?
Mr. CURRY - They said the Secret Service would be there.
Mr. RANKIN - And then?
Mr. CURRY - They said we can put this vehicle in between Captain Fritz and his detectives immediately at the end of the motorcade. They said, "No, we want a white or marked car there bringing up the rear," so Fritz and his men were not in the motorcade.
ALLEN DULLES - What do you mean in the past when there have been previous Presidents visiting Dallas or other dignitaries?
Mr. CURRY - Yes; that is right; other dignitaries. Yes; our thinking along this was that in the past there have been this. Captain Fritz, he is a very experienced homicide man so are his detectives. They know the city very well. They have been there very, Captain Fritz to my knowledge, over 40 years. It is customary that they in trying to protect a person if they are in the immediate vicinity, and Captain Fritz told me later, he said, "I believe that had we been there we might possibly have got that man before he got out of that building or we would have maybe had the opportunity of firing at him while he was still firing" because they were equipped, would have been equipped with high-powered rifles and machine guns, submachine guns.
GERALD FORD - Where were they instead of being at the motorcade?
Mr. CURRY - Actually they were not in the motorcade at all. They followed up the motorcade.
Representative FORD - Were they in a car following up the motorcade?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir; they were in a car.
Representative FORD - How far away would they have been?
Mr. CURRY - I think they would have been at the rear, I believe.
Representative FORD - Captain Fritz is going to be here later.
Mr. RANKIN - Yes.
Representative FORD - And fill in what he did at that time?
Mr. RANKIN - Yes.
Mr. CURRY - But we tried to do what the Secret Service asked us to do, and we didn't try to override them because we didn't feel it was our responsibility, that it was their responsibility to tell us what they wanted and we would try to provide it.
Mr. RANKIN - Did you refuse to do anything that they asked you to do?
Mr. CURRY - No, sir; not to my knowledge we don't--we didn't refuse them to do anything.
Mr. DULLES - You considered them to be the boss in this particular situation?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir; the Secret Service; yes, sir.
RON ECKER SAID:
In the same testimony, Curry said that they wanted more motorcycles beside the limo, but the Secret Service wanted fewer and wanted them moved back. I believe this is called security stripping, although Curry didn't use that term.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yes, I noticed the "four motorcycles on each side" request by Chief Curry too
[at 4 H 171]. However, once again, photographs of many pre-November 22 motorcades suggest that there were rarely (if ever) four cycles on each side of President Kennedy's car during motorcades. There were almost always TWO cycles flanking each side of the President's car, just exactly the same as in Dallas on 11/22/63, such as in the two pre-Nov. 22 examples seen below:
And I also have several pictures of JFK in motorcades where there are zero motorcycles riding beside his limo, such as these examples:
So if Chief Curry had received his request for EIGHT motorcycles flanking JFK's limousine (four on each side), it would most certainly have been a very unusual cycle configuration for a Kennedy motorcade, to be sure.
GREG BURNHAM SAID:
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
That's hilarious, Greg. Thanks for creating it. I love it!
Perhaps I should invent a paper called "The Patsy Press", featuring such bombshell headlines as:
Conspiracy Theorists Declare Oswald Innocent! Fuzzy Image That Is Essentially Worthless For Positive Identification Indicates That Oswald Was On Front Stoop Of Depository Saying A Prayer For Fidel When JFK Was Killed, CTers Say!
and....
Oswald Innocent Of Slaying Police Officer! All Evidence Was Faked! One Dozen Eyewitnesses Coerced By Crooked Dallas Cops Into Positively IDing The Former Marine As Either Tippit's Killer Or As Gunman Fleeing Scene Of Crime, Conspiracists Assure Us!
RON ECKER SAID:
Maybe Chief Curry, knowing Dallas as he did, thought it might be advisable to have more than the usual number of motorcycles around JFK's limo.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
That's quite possible indeed, Ron.
But do you think the extra four cops on motorcycles would have been able to prevent President Kennedy from getting hit in the head by a bullet fired by a rifleman who was hiding somewhere in Dealey Plaza?
RON ECKER SAID:
Perhaps not. All I know is that the SS wanted no protection around the limo at all beyond the rear fenders. It wanted no camera truck in front, it wanted no armed cops behind, and it did not want the guy with the "football" in the middle of the front seat. You know, in case a shot through the windshield might be needed.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
But we know for a fact that in many motorcades prior to 11/22/63, those very things you just mentioned also occurred -- i.e., nobody riding in the middle of the front seat of JFK's car, only "rear fender" motorcycle escorts, etc.
Check out JFK's parade through the streets of San Diego on June 6, 1963, in the video below. Except for the presence of a press truck at the front of the motorcade, the configuration of the motorcade and the cycles and the lack of any military aide sitting in the middle of the front seat is exactly the same in San Diego as it was in Dallas on November 22nd. And yet I don't hear any CTers griping about any "security stripping" or "standdown" when it comes to this San Diego excursion....
VINCE PALAMARA SAID:
The San Diego thing cracks me up to no end -- I HAVE STILL PHOTOS FROM THAT TRIP IN MY BOOK!
As "Welton Hartford", DVP posts a video of the San Diego trip in an attempt to debunk security stripping and so forth. Meanwhile, besides the 3 flatbeds of still/motion/live television press coverage he notes in front of the limo, MARINES LINE THE STREET AND FACE THE CROWDS, SAIC Behn was on the trip riding in the limo, multi story building rooftops were guarded (as confirmed by San Diego police outriders, thus confirming my general research beforehand) and the police intermingled in the crowds; THAT is how the Secret Service "overcame" their manpower shortages.
John McAdams tried the still photo "gotcha" game years ago with still shots (one each) of the Ireland and Hawaii trips. Yet, not only did agents intermittently walk/jog with the limo, once again, multi story buildings were guarded and police were intermingled in the crowds, common security measures used FDR-JFK (and beyond).
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
DVP used an alias, Weldon [sic] Hartford?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
That, of course, never happened. I've never used an alias on the Internet.
Perhaps somebody named Welton Hartford embedded a video from my YouTube channel. Is that what happened, Vince? You should get it straight before posting.
Hartford does have a YouTube channel with a part of the San Diego video on it. But I am certainly not Welton Hartford.
And all of the points I have made about the ridiculous "Secret Service Standdown" theory are still valid points which indicate (via many photos and films and Secret Service documents, such as CD 821) that the security in the Dallas motorcade was exactly the same as it was in many pre-Nov. 22 motorcades. And Vince Palamara knows this is true. And so does anyone else who has bothered to look at the many photos and films of JFK's pre-Nov. 22 parades.
VINCE PALAMARA SAID:
That is totally false. The security in Dallas was woefully short of the mark.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
You're only saying that because JFK was killed in Dallas. But the motorcade configuration and the security that was DIRECTLY SURROUNDING the President in Dealey Plaza was virtually identical when compared to other pre-Nov. 22 motorcades. And that's a fact. And you surely know it.
In addition, we can know by reading the official Secret Service assassination report that the United States Secret Service did not have a habit of checking every building and every window along motorcade routes in 1963. See pages 12 and 13 of the 12/18/63 Secret Service Report (Warren Commission Document No. 3).
More lies??
VINCE PALAMARA SAID:
Yes--blatant lies, as proven by pre-11/22/63 newspaper accounts and the man who wrote the Secret Service manual, Chief Inspector Michael Torina.
All BS because the agents were terrified of losing their jobs, their pensions, etc. CYA
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Bull, Vince.
A person who has to resort to "THEY ALL LIED" is a desperate person.
VINCE PALAMARA SAID:
You sound lame and pathetic on this one, Davey. I have to agree with Jim on this one.
It is the end of the ball game when Chief Inspector Michael Torina, who WROTE THE SECRET SERVICE MANUAL AND WAS WAY HIGHER IN RANK THAN BLAINE AND HILL AND THEIR ILK COMBINED, wrote in 1962 and confirmed various contemporary news accounts (FDR-JFK era) that multi story buildings were guarded. I spoke to Torina, as well...did you, DVP?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
No, the "lame and pathetic" one is the one who thinks everybody under the sun was a lying SOB.
Given the manpower they had available to them in 1963 (which wasn't very much), the SS couldn't possibly check every single window in every building along a motorcade route in a big city like Dallas. Not possible---despite Fletcher Prouty's arguments to the contrary.
JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:
BTW, why did [Floyd] Boring lie about not [being] in Dallas that day?
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
He didn't......
Regarding Vince Palamara's 2014 claim that Secret Service agent Floyd Boring was lying and was really present at Love Field in Dallas on 11/22/63 instead of being elsewhere at that time, CLICK HERE.
VINCE PALAMARA SAID:
[Clint] HILL CANNOT BE TRUSTED.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
Yeah, that must be why thousands of CTers just love to prop up and TRUST Clinton J. Hill when he said that the BACK of JFK's head was blown out. Right, Vince?
So, Vince, you think the Secret Service deliberately stripped JFK's security in Dallas so that the President could be murdered more easily? Is that it?
And if that's not IT --- what is?
I mean, it couldn't be more obvious that the Secret Service didn't do their job very well of protecting the President's life on 11/22/63. But do we really need this 576-page book by Vincent Palamara to tell us that?
VINCE PALAMARA SAID:
You seem to be infatuated with these "pillars of virtue", DVP. Hill has changed his story now, trying to say that the head wound was more forward. .... Hill drank the night before and did not help Jackie. She got in and out of the limo of her own volition. The shooting was over and Hill was late getting there; sad but true. He was the "Jessica Lynch" of the assassination--a feel-good false "hero" in order to assuage the public and deflect from their gross negligence.
Heroes? JFK was killed because of them.
As you have seen in recent years, the agency is far from perfect. It began on 11/22/63 and, off and on, there have been problems since.
Keep in mind, I am much aware of all the good and bad said online about me from "fans" and Blaine's ilk; much aware.
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
And so you wrote a 576-page book to tell people what they already knew --- I.E., The Secret Service Blew It In Dallas On November 22, 1963.
What's on the other 575 pages?
David Von Pein
July 30-31, 2015
