CONSPIRACIST CHARLES KENNEDY SAID:
>>> "Oswald wasn't "planted" as much as he was set up." <<<
DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
I'll make it blunt (and truthful) -- Bullshit.
There's not a sliver of proof to show that Lee Harvey Oswald was "set
up" for the murder of President Kennedy.
All you've got is raw, naked (and, frankly, silly) speculation. [And
the "silly" part rears its hilarious head as we proceed through the
ridiculous web of fantasies being spun by Charles below.]
>>> "Essentially, they manufactured his [Saint Oswald's] movements. They "forced" testimony that would "set up" Oswald and leave the trail of the real assassins unexposed." <<<
LOL Break #1.
The proverbial "they" somehow (some incredible way!) knew, beyond ALL
doubt, that "they" would be able to "LEAVE THE TRAIL OF THE REAL
ASSASSINS UNEXPOSED", even though "they" were going to use MULTIPLE
SHOOTERS in Dealey Plaza, firing from BOTH behind JFK and from the
right-front of the President's car. Right?
So what you're really saying here is that the amazing "THEY BOYS" had
no qualms whatsoever when "they" went forward with a multi-gunmen
assassination plot within the context of needing just a SINGLE "patsy"
blamed for the shooting. Right?
And this is because "they" somehow KNEW that the "trail of the real
assassins" would remain "unexposed" for all time....even though these
silly conspirators HAD to know that John Kennedy's body would SURELY
be whisked away to the nearest hospital, even though he was
essentially dead in Dealey Plaza. Right?
Therefore, the "They Boys" would need to have EVERY PERSON AT PARKLAND
HOSPITAL in "their" hip pocket. From Dr. Carrico, to Dr. Perry, to Dr.
McClelland, to Dr. Jones, to Dr. Peters, to Nurse Bowron, and so on.
But "they" obviously didn't have ANYBODY at Parkland in their hip
pocket, because virtually every Parkland witness later talked about
how the President had a gaping hole in the BACK of his head. Plus,
there's Perry's early account of how the President's throat wound was
a wound of presumed "entrance".
Of course, right on cue, conspiracy theorists almost always point to
the Parkland witnesses as ironclad "proof" of a conspiracy and proof
of multiple shooters.
In reality, though, the Parkland people are all trumped by MUCH BETTER
evidence, such as the photograph below (and other evidence, like the
autopsy report, which confirms beyond all doubt that JFK was hit just
ONE time in the head, and that bullet entered from "BEHIND"):
But my main point from earlier is a potentially critical one for the
unseen "they boys", which is this point --- Since the brain-dead
plotters decided to go ahead and shoot up Dealey Plaza by utilizing
multiple guns (from both FRONT and REAR locations) within their pre-
arranged "1 Patsy Named Oswald" scheme....then how could the plotters
have possibly known, on November 21st, that the conspiracy wouldn't be
blown to bits the very moment that JFK was wheeled into Trauma Room
No. 1 at Parkland Memorial Hospital?
Answer --- "They" couldn't possibly have CONTROLLED all the things
that potentially COULD have happened within the framework of such an
impossible-to-control and impossible-to-pull-off ONE-Patsy plot that
involves MULTIPLE gunmen popping away at John Kennedy's body from
various angles on Elm Street. (LOL Break #2.)
That type of PRE-PLANNED assassination scheme is (to put it mildly) --
just...plain...dumb. Period. And only a group of total morons would
even BEGIN to consider "setting up" their lone "patsy" in such a
needlessly-reckless and purely-idiotic fashion.
But, at least Oliver Stone and millions of other Americans seem to
believe it. So, Charles, you're not alone in believing such tripe, at
any rate.
>>> "They forced the motorcade around Oswald. The planners needed to have someone who had knowledge of the PLAN to be the fall guy." <<<
LOL Break #3.
So, Oswald (per Chuck Kennedy) did, indeed, have "knowledge of the
plan" that swirled all around him on 11/22/63 -- which is a "plan"
that was being arranged by people in pretty high places (I would
think; right?) and by people with a lot of pull and power -- but LHO
just went right ahead and fell into the trap by agreeing to carry his
OWN TRACEABLE RIFLE into his workplace on Assassination Day, even
though he should have been asking himself the following logical
question:
'Gee, I wonder why these bigshot plotters couldn't have supplied the
real killers (or me) with a better rifle, instead of having me haul my
own mail-order 1940 Italian carbine into work to do part of the job on
Kennedy?'
Well, I guess we'll just assume that Oswald was brainwashed by his
handlers, huh? Or we could believe that he was the dumbest "patsy"
ever to join forces with a covert assassination team.
Either way, this whole line of "pro-conspiracy" thought regarding
Oswald's rifle is just foolish beyond belief. For, the ONLY way it
makes any sense at all is if Lee Harvey Oswald was a LONE ASSASSIN on
November 22nd and was not part of some grand plot being orchestrated
by other people.
Hence, he was USING THE ONLY WEAPON THAT WAS READILY AVAILABLE
FOR HIM TO USE, i.e., his own Mannlicher-Carcano rifle which he already
knew how to use with ease and was undoubtedly quite familiar with prior
to 11/22/63.
We know he used it for at least one other murder attempt before
November rolled around....that being the attempt on Edwin Walker's
life in April 1963, just days after Lee acquired the gun in the mail.
Plus: If Oswald had actually had advanced knowledge of some plot, he
certainly would have been shouting out some of the facts about the
"plot" to the live TV audience when many chances were afforded him to
do so on November 22 and 23 after he was arrested.
Instead, he clams up completely about the "plot" that had just
exploded in his face. Even his "I'm just a patsy" mantra wasn't being
aimed at the people whom Charles here seems to think were responsible
for Oswald's "patsy" status.
Oswald was actually aiming his "patsy" comment at the DPD (for having
been "taken in", according to Oswald himself, due to the fact that he
had previously lived in the Soviet Union).
If you listen to the WHOLE "patsy" comment [available below] and place
it in the proper context, it's clear as day that LHO was aiming his "I'm
just a patsy" remark at the Dallas Police Department, and not at any
unknown, unidentified "Mystery Plotters" on the outside who had set
him up for taking a lone fall.
So, in reality, even Oswald's "patsy" remark doesn't add up for the CT-
Kooks who wish to place the "HE WAS NOTHING BUT A PATSY" label on Lee
Harvey Oswald.
>>> " 'What ifs' don't amount to a "bucket of warm spit" regarding the public execution of John F Kennedy." <<<
You finally got something right. They don't.
But that fact apparently doesn't deter CT kooks like you from
regurgitating as many "What If" scenarios revolving around JFK's
murder as humanly possible. Does it now?
Or is there a new "Kook Rule" in the book that says that the
unprovable "What ifs" supplied in massive quantities by conspiracy
theorists worldwide are NOT to be considered "What ifs" at all -- but
"Facts" instead?
That's probably Kook Rule #5B. That rulebook that CTers adhere to has
some very curious guidelines in it. It's a howl.
>>> "Oswald worked on Friday and Kennedy was executed on Friday." <<<
Hey! You got something else right. Nice job. (Although "executed"
should be "assassinated". But I'll at least give you credit for your
"Friday" accuracy.)
That actually brings up another thing that I mentioned on the Internet
several months ago -- i.e., What if Kennedy had visited Dallas on a
SATURDAY or a SUNDAY?
That would have certainly thrown a monkey wrench into that massive
plot being put together by the "They Boys", huh?
Because if Kennedy comes to town on a Saturday or a Sunday, then
everybody's favorite "Patsy For All November 1963 Murders" -- Lee H.
Oswald -- wouldn't even have been inside the Book Depository, and
therefore could never have been used as the patsy from the 6th Floor
of that building (as many CTers firmly advocate).
Or maybe "they" would have arranged for Oswald to break into the TSBD
on a Sunday, if necessary, and go up to the sixth floor anyway....even
though the warehouse crew didn't report to work on Sundays.
That's what must be so great about being a conspiracy kook with a
fertile imagination (like Mr. Charles Kennedy here)....you can just
start making shit up out of nothing but thin air and warm spit, and
pretty soon--Voila!--you've got yourself a perfect patsy named Oswald.
And if you're one of these kooks like Charles, there's no need to rely
on something called "official evidence" or "common sense". Because, to
a rabid conspiracy theorist, those things are just simply not
important at all.
The "official evidence" you say?? Meh! If you're living in a kook's
world, you can just pretend (without a grain of proof to support it)
that ALL of the "official evidence" is "fake"/"planted"/worthless.
Simple.
Right, Chuck?
>>> "A well-known fact is that the CIA worked closely with the Quakers and other religious organizations for "missionary" work." <<<
LOL Break #4. (This is gonna go into double-digits on these laugh
breaks...easy.)
So, we must be inching toward a theory involving that most evil of all
conspirators -- Ruth "I WANT THE PRESIDENT DEAD FOR NO APPARENT REASON
WHATSOEVER" Paine. And her hubby, Michael "SINCE I WORKED FOR BELL
HELICOPTER, IT MUST MEAN I'M A CONSPIRATOR" Paine.
Right?
Right.
>>> "The Plotters needed only to have Oswald along the route." <<<
Which must mean that BOTH John Connally and JFK personal aide and very
good friend Kenneth O'Donnell were "plotters" too, huh? Because each
of those men was deeply involved in determining (in essence) what
route the motorcade would follow on November 22nd.
Connally, who was initially against a motorcade altogether, was
pushing hard to have the 11/22 luncheon at the new Trade Mart
building, which meant the motorcade, if proper city traffic laws were
followed, would need to make its zig-zag turns through Dealey Plaza.
And O'Donnell is the person who officially put the stamp of approval
on the Trade Mart as the luncheon site (which he didn't do, btw, until
November 13th or 14th). .....
http://history-matters.com
http://groups.google.com
Many CT-Kooks actually DO think that Connally himself, in some way,
was involved in the assassination....which is just another of the many
times when CTers give their common sense a vacation. For, would
Connally have wanted to be in the same car with JFK when the bullets
started flying? (Bullets that Connally KNEW were going to be flying
before he ever stepped into that limo at Love Field?)
That's nuts.
>>> "Kennedy needed to pass the TSBD, because the ambush came from behind him. Oswald was "placed" to the rear and alongside the motorcade. James Jarrmon [sic] (TSBD employee) testified that he heard three shots, and by the second shot, he knew the shots came from below and to the left of his position on the 5th floor of the TSBD. He had 8 years military service." <<<
Jarman was a bit confused by the source of all the gunshots, which is
perfectly understandable. But Harold Norman, up there on the 5th Floor
with Jarman, said he heard three bullet "hulls" falling to the floor
directly above his head. And that number of "hulls" perfectly
corresponds to the number of hulls/shells that were, indeed, found
directly above Norman's head in the Book Depository.
Was Norman merely a "WC Shill"? Many CTers think so. They HAVE to
think that. Because if Harold Norman was right, then three rifle shots
positively came from the "Oswald window" on the sixth floor....and
many CTers desperately don't want to believe that such a "3 Shots From
The Sniper's Nest" event occurred at all on November 22nd.
Here is some of the 1986 testimony given by Harold Norman at the
television Docu-Trial ("ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD"):
VINCENT BUGLIOSI -- "So you heard a total of three shots?"
HAROLD NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Did it sound to you like a rifle was being fired
directly above you?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Was there any OTHER reason, in addition to the sound
of the rifle, any other reason why you believed the shots were coming
from directly above you?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "And what is that?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Because I could hear the empty hulls--that's what I
call them--hit the floor; and I could hear the bolt action of the
rifle being pushed back and forward."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "You're familiar with a bolt-action rifle?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "And by 'hulls', you mean cartridge casings?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Cartridges."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "How many did you hear falling to the floor?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Three."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Is the sound of that bolt action, and the ejection of
the cartridge casings, and their falling to the floor something that
you're going to remember for the rest of your life?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "One more question....at any time on the morning of
the assassination did you see any stranger or strangers in the Book
Depository Building?"
MR. NORMAN -- "No sir."
MORE ABOUT HAROLD NORMAN
>>> "The shots came from directly behind Kennedy, as well as from the right front." <<<
So, are you saying that NO SHOTS at all came from the "Oswald window"
in the TSBD? If you believe that, you should look up Robert Groden,
because he'll probably be your new best friend. Robert, per his 1993
book, says that 8 to 10 shots were fired; and he thinks that it's very
likely that NONE of those shots came from the Sniper's-Nest window on
the sixth floor of the TSBD.
Anyway, these words of yours -- "the shots came from directly behind
Kennedy, as well as from the right front" -- confirm that your make-
believe "Multi-Gun, One-Patsy" plot was being pre-planned by a group
of comedians. (Or by a group of morons with a combined I.Q. of 6.)
>>> "Linnie Mae Randle tells a neighbor, who tells Ruth Paine, who calls Roy Truly, and sets up the interview for Oswald. Wesley Buell Frazier [actually Buell Wesley Frazier, but why quibble?] is Linnie Mae's brother. He and Oswald rode into work together. Wesley describes Oswald as "not much of a talker". Amazing that the person who drove him around, states he didn't speak much." <<<
Another LOL Break, ya think? (Yeah, I think so too.)
Plus: A "WTF??" is certainly in order here as well. (I guess the fact
that Oswald was quiet during his drives with Frazier indicates
something "fishy" to certain rabid "I Need A Conspiracy At All Costs"
researchers. Are most "patsies" also chatterboxes?)
And you've SURELY got to include Linnie Randle in your group of make-
believe "conspirators", right? Surely!
No way that it's any coincidence that Oswald's wife just happened to
be living temporarily with a QUAKER WOMAN MARRIED TO A GUY WHO WORKED
FOR BELL HELICOPTER, who lived just half-a-block down the street from
a 19-year-old stock boy who, himself, just started working at the Book
Depository two months earlier. Right?
Coincidence? All of that intricate stuff involving a bunch of regular,
ordinary people in Irving, Texas? Come now! It's GOT to be an
intricate plot, involving housewives, and "Bell" employees, and 19-
year-old kids and their sisters! It's obvious!
You can find my "Ruth Paine Imitation" HERE. (That hussy!)
>>> "What I found interesting was the part about Oswald "going behind the Picket Fence" on the day of the assassination. This juicy morsel came up during Wesley's testimony at the Clay Shaw Trial: [quoting Frazier:] "He [LHO] got out of the car, got the package, and walked behind the picket fence there and stayed there, like he was waiting on me"." <<<
This requires the biggest "LOL break" to date!
Charles wants us to believe that Wes Frazier was talking there about
the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll (which would be the famous "Badge
Man" picket fence which is very near the TSBD Building itself).
But Frazier, in that Shaw Trial snippet above, was obviously not
talking about Oswald going behind the "Grassy Knoll" picket fence.
Wesley had to be referring to some other fence located near the
railroad tracks and nearer the location where Frazier parked his car
(which was, btw, a location approx. four blocks away from the
Depository's back entrance; see this photo).
When comparing Wesley Frazier's Clay Shaw Trial testimony with his
Warren Commission testimony, we can easily determine that the "fence"
that Frazier was talking about was RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE PARKED CAR
in the distant TSBD parking lot.
Here's the pertinent excerpt from Frazier's 1964 WC session (with the
words "cyclone fence" being used instead of "picket fence"):
"He got out of the car and he was wearing the jacket that has
the big sleeves in them and he put the package that he had, you know,
that he told me was curtain rods up under his arm, you know, and so he
walked down behind the car and standing over there at the end of the
cyclone fence waiting for me to get out of the car. And so quick as I
cut the engine off and started out of the car, shut the door, just as
I was starting out just like getting out of the car, he started
walking off and so I followed him in." -- Buell Wesley Frazier
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm
>>> "When you look at Oswald's employment, you realize the FBI was making sure Oswald did not keep employment at one place." <<<
The "Let's Make Shit Up As We Go Along" rule is still in full force, I
see. Continue....
>>> "The FBI had a personal vendetta against Oswald for some reason." <<<
A CT-Kook's imagination is a thing to behold, isn't it? Just amazing.
>>> "The FBI's Counter Intelligence Group, as a specific department, decided to set up Oswald for Kennedy's assassination." <<<
Did the evil FBI force poor, defenseless Mr. Oswald to take shots at
both Edwin Walker and J.D. Tippit too?
Or was Oz "set up" for those two shootings as well?
>>> "Oswald was undercover for an intelligence agency, or investigative committee. He had spy equipment in his possessions at the Paine house, for filming locations and documents." <<<
As with everything ever said by a rabid "Anybody But Oswald"
conspiracy theorist, there's not a shred of hard proof to verify the
above assertion.
But, why let that stop you Charles. Just say that Oswald was an
"undercover" agent....and it magically becomes a fact.
(BTW, I wonder how Chuck gets those three bullets to act like just one
bullet when it comes to the SBT debate? That's one of those
"Copperfield moments" that no CTer has ever explained satisfactorily.)
>>> "Oswald was not inclined to shoot anyone." <<<
Yeah....except for Edwin Walker, John F. Kennedy, and J.D. Tippit.
Other than those three times, Oswald never shot at anybody in 1963.
>>> "Truth is, Oswald was not a killer, but imagined himself as a master spy. The plotters needed to show him as a "lone nut" and capable of killing." <<<
Yeah, accept every possible explanation except the Occam's-like answer
that's likely to be the correct one.
Typical Kook Talk.
44 years and counting, and you can't prove a damn thing with respect
to that massive "Patsy" plot that you kooks imagine took place in
1963.
But, pretending that it happened the kook's way is more than enough to
keep the rabid CTers of the Earth happy and satisfied.
>>> "Oswald was not who and what the "press" showed him to be." <<<
Well, Oswald was a double-murderer. That's a rock-solid fact. The
popcorn trail of evidence that leads to nobody but LHO easily proves
his "Guilty" status. And no amount of silly Wishful-Thinking theories
being thrown up against the wall by CTers can change that basic fact
about Oz being a double-killer.
But you'll still try to manipulate the evidence, won't you? You
wouldn't be worth your "CT Kook" salt if you didn't, of course.
Here's a novel idea! -- Maybe ALL of the evidence against Oswald has
been "planted" or "manufactured" in some manner. Ya think?
>>> "If Oswald took the rifle into the TSBD, he did not do it on the 22nd." <<<
Yeah, mabe you're right. Maybe Oswald had some invisible, never-found
"curtain rods" with him on the 22nd.
Or, maybe Lee packed a hearty lunch that Friday. Maybe his 40-course
noontime meal was lurking inside that bulky paper package (even though
Wesley Frazier specifically heard Oswald say, on 11/22/63, that he
[LHO] was going to "buy his lunch" at the Depository that day). .....
JOSEPH BALL -- "Did you notice whether or not Lee had a package that
looked like a lunch package that morning?"
BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER -- "You know like I told you earlier, I say, he
didn't take his lunch because I remember right when I got in the car,
I asked him where was his lunch, and he said he was going to buy his
lunch that day."
MR. BALL -- "He told you that that day, did he?"
MR. FRAZIER -- "Right. That is right. So, I assumed he was going to
buy it, you know, from that catering service man like a lot of the
boys do. They don't bring their lunch but they go out and buy their
lunch there."
~~~~~
Many CTers like to intentionally ignore these key words spoken by
Wesley Frazier --- "When I got in the car, I asked him where was his
lunch, and he said he was going to buy his lunch that day."
>>> "If, as Wesley Buell Frazier [sic] testified, Oswald was near the picket fence, then there is a connection that there was a possibility that the original package he carried to Frazier's car was exchanged, by pre-arrangement, and that is why Frazier came up with why he stayed in the car as Oswald walked ahead of him." <<<
Another LOL.
I've already thoroughly trashed your silly analysis regarding the
"picket fence" as it relates to Oswald walking away from Frazier's car
on the morning of the assassination.
Frazier was talking about a fence that was RIGHT NEXT to the car in
the employee parking area, for Pete's sake! He wasn't talking about
the picket fence on the Knoll, which was BLOCKS away from where
Frazier parked his car every morning.
>>> "One can ascribe a motive to Oswald, but it is pure speculation." <<<
LOL time once more. (What number "LOL" is this? I've lost track, due
to their frequency.)
An "LN" motive for Lee Oswald's actions on 11/22/63 is considered by
Chuck to be "pure speculation", but the following hunks of brilliant
clairvoyance spoken by CTer Charlie are evidently NOT to be considered
"speculation" at all. These things are to be considered solid FACTS
(despite a total lack of proof being attached to ANY of them by the
CTer who postulated them). Remarkable. And hilarious, to boot. .....
"The FBI's Counter Intelligence Group decided to set up Oswald for
Kennedy's assassination."
"Oswald was undercover for an intelligence agency."
"Oswald was not a killer."
"The FBI had a personal vendetta against Oswald."
"Oswald...was set up."
"The FBI was making sure Oswald did not keep employment at one place."
"They forced the motorcade around Oswald."
"The shots came from directly behind Kennedy, as well as from the
right front."
-----------------------
[End CT-Kook Quotes.]
-----------------------
The sheer gall (and gonad size) of a conspiracy-loving kook is simply
astounding. Wouldn't you agree?
David Von Pein
November 20-21, 2007
LINK TO ORIGINAL POST (NOVEMBER 21, 2007)
